Ruth Lie
Curator: Public programmes, Whitechapel Gallery (UK)
Ruth Lie is a curator and producer based in London, with specific experience in events based public programming and commissioning, as well as supporting and mentoring artists and designers from a broad range of creative disciplines. She is currently Senior Creative Producer at Somerset House Trust after being the Public Programme Curator (Maternity Cover) at Whitechapel Gallery.--
Why did you become a curator? Were you interested in a specific topic and why?
I came initially from an architecture background, and during my year in placement was increasingly disillusioned with the architecture world as being (at the time) predominantly white, male, straight and cis. I witnessed and experienced countless examples of sexism and micro aggression in the workplace (I worked for a large, quite commercial practice).
My main interests were in creating moments that brought people together, breaking down barriers in the way in which people experience and interact with art, and exploring the temporary - almost the opposite of architecture you could say! I began organising my own exhibitions and then (after leaving and working temporarily in an admin role) applied to the RCA's Inspire programme. This was a fully funded MA which enabled students from BAME backgrounds to study alongside placements in an institution. I was successful in getting a place at the V&A (I assume my design background helped with this).
Have you ever experienced tokenisation of identities/certain groups as a problem in your practice, independently or in an institutional position?
I think institutions (and in particular management in institutions) are still inherently white, upper/middle class, straight and cis, although this is changing. Social class within the sector is also still a huge problem and will continue to be so with notoriously low wages in the art sector, especially in London. With the rise in Black Lives Matter protests during the pandemic, there is of course a need to respond from institutions, but I feel somewhat disillusioned by this, especially given that the workforce is not representative of the programme they seek to create and the people they would like to provide a space for. How can these programmes therefore not have a sense of tokenism about them? I am the only curator of colour in my current team. In previous roles, it is often assumed that if you are of a BAME background (or the global majority as I find this a more empowering description) that you will do the work for the institutions - you are tokenised yourself. I've seen so many of my friends within the sector feel isolated and struggle mentally as a result.
Did you develop any organisational or curatorial tactics to overcome this problem and really support the communities that were important to you and your programmes?
Over the years, my current tactic or learnt understandings, and ways of overcoming the inherent institutional problems we face is to focus on what I care about. And right now I think that this is artists and the people we are working with, their care and wellbeing, which should always come first and foremost. There is a real need for kindness and compassion in the sector - whether you are an artist or a front of house staff member (or often both) and the hierarchical structures that are so deeply rooted mean that people in the sector are often treated badly. Too often it's assumed that institutions are doing you a favour, for wanting to speak to you / show your work / programme you within an event - when actually, we can't do any of this without you. Who benefits more, the artist or the institution? Speaking as someone who feels incredibly burnt out and disillusioned within the sector right now, I know what that answer is.
What does feminist and queer curating means to you?
To me, it means openness, joy, and questioning the powers and systems that be. A fantastic exhibition I've seen is https://www.whitechapelgallery.org/exhibitions/we-get-to-choose-our-families/, curated by my colleague Helen Davison. There have however been really strong reactions around it - for example, a certain sector of feminists have so openly attacked the exhibition, because it is a celebration also of trans lives and the oppressions faced by trans communities. This is so unreal and sad to me. It is a really complex subject that I don't feel educated enough to speak more about.